Egyptian and Palestinian officials said Sunday they were close to reaching a deal with Israel that would end a mass hunger strike by Palestinians in Israeli jails.
Listen to an interview with Nissim Dahan on the Tom Marr Show.
Let us assume that you are able to get a sizable amount together. You have yet to tell me what amount would be sizable? Than what? The population is mainly rural or peasants with very little education. How long will it take to switch the economy into one resembling a Western style functioning economy? 10 years, 20 years or 50 years?
Why has not the USA annual gift of over 1.5 billion dollars done the trick?
Will the donations or help do the trick before the population implosion erases any gains or will the economy be able to absorb all this?
These are just a small sample of the problems that will be encountered with the economy and jobs, any jobs, for the young.
The only way Israel can accomplish peace with the Arabs is to allow a Muslim state instead of Israel. This is born out by 1947 (the partition plan) and Camp David (Barak) and 2008(Olmert. If they wanted a state they would have had one in 1947, 1967, 2000 and 2008 but alas that is not what they want. The other way is to have a "peace" with the Palestinians by giving them what they had in 1967 and continue with the grievances by all of the Arab nations without the depth to defend oneself. Is that what you envision as a peace? I do not. What about the Foreign Arabs from all over the Middle east that would clamour to settle in Israel as part of the Right of Return?
Perhaps you can outline a different scenario. But please be realistic and not pie in the sky wishful thinking please.
I would like some detailed scenarios on both the economic and political front. So far all I heard from you is LA LA Land outside the box thinking that I cannot quite understand or reconcile with reality.
I have not even pointed out the religious aspects and will leave that for a further discussion.
Right after the 1993 Oslo agreement and up to that time there were no barriers between Israel and the territories. The Arabs of Judea, Samaria and Gaza have shot past all of the other Arab State neighbours as far as the standard of living goes. There was no severe unemployment in these territories and no checkpoints and no walls.
So why did the Arabs reject it and started an Intifada in 1998 and again in 2000. They were being offered 97-98% of the captured territories and 99% of the population was under PA rule.
So what happened to change all that?
Netanyahu has been offering a plan to increase the financial well being of the Palestinians and they have been rejecting it. WHY?
Same old, same old since 1929 and this is the reason why I do not believe that your plan will work as there is no desire for an economic upsurge but simply for a desire to eliminate Israel.
About 70% of the Palestinians and a large number of Israeli Arabs have polled in agreement with armed attacks against Israeli civilians and mostly for religious reasons. How do you suggest to appease these people and make them into either friends or just more peaceful towards Jews and Israel.
That my friend is a challenge in itself as are the other points that I have enumerated.
I am curious as to what you consider peace or even modus viventi.
Gabe, you want specifics, so let's talk specifics.
Let's say, for the moment, that my plan for the region will probably take 50 years or so to implement and probably one trillion dollars of investment as well. Notice I use the work investment, not handouts.
It is a long term plan, it's true. However, that doesn't mean that there is no benefit in getting started now.
While it is true that a revitalization of the region will take a long time, it is also true that a Vision of Hope could be put out there right away. And I would argue that there will be benefits to us to do just that.
In a few short months there will be elections here and there, or at least some sort of transition in power. Who do you suggest should win?
The Mubarak model is out. The extremists are ready, willing and able to put there model in place. We need to get another model out there, as quickly as possible, in order to have half a chance to win some of these elections. For example, I would suggest meeting with moderate candidates and try to convince them to embrace a Vision of Hope for their nations. A vision of this sort could capture hearts and minds, especially if the man on the street see the beginnings of actual investments in this direction. He will cut us some slack, and even give us the benefit of the doubt, if he sees that what we are saying, and what we are doing, actually points to the possibility of a brighter future.
In short, the ideological extremists will not be able to capture the public's imagination, once people begin to imagine a better life for themselves. We can help spark that imagination if we so choose.
In terms of the people themselves, I think that a lot of them are a lot more educated than you think. There are those who are not, but as we can see on TV, a lot of them have access to the internet, and they want to work. However, they are enetering a job market that has no jobs. That is the main problem. The man in Tunisia, for example, was educated, couldn't get a job, and decided to sell vegetables to support his mother and sister. His cart was confiscated, and in protest, he set himself on fire, and actually set the entire region ablaze. For me, at least, his act of desperation speaks of two things: jobs and freedom. That's what this thing is all about.
As to a final peace treaty, I don't believe that Israel should agree to anything which would put her survival in jeopardy. The final deal will probably look similar to what Ehud Barak and President Clinton put on the table in the year 2000. I think that Ehud Barak knew what he was doing, as the most decorated soldier in Israel's history.
As to your assertion that the Palestinians haven't wanted peace in the past, you're probably right. In the past, it was more advantageous for Palestinian leaders to keep Israel as an enemy as a bid to consolidate and hold on to power.
But today, Gabe, is a new day. The calculus of the moment is not the same as the past. Hating Israel was a good way of diverting attention from corruption and inadequate leadership. That was then. Today, if I am right on this thing, at least some of our former enemies will actually need Israel, for a change, and if Israel is smart, she will use that new reality to her advantage, and go about helping to revitalize the region. If she become needed in this way, it will give her a greater measure of security, than simply depending on military might. What I am saying is that it is time to play to all our strenghts: ideologically, economically, spiritually, diplomatically, and yes, militarily as well.
The fallacy is that you, like a lot of dreamers, assumes that what is happening in the Middle East is as a result of Israel and or the USA.I maintain that it is about jobs and the high cost of living. I also maintain that the average Arab youth is not prepared to wait but wants it now.So "a long time" will do nothing in the short term.
What would you invest in in the short term? Why have the Oil Rich Arab States not done that already? I guess we know the answer and the reason why we have refugees living on the UNWRA dole is no different.
The short term solution is to "force" the Arab regimes to move into the 20th century and shed their extremist religious education by cutting the power of the mullahs.
Peace between the Arab states and Israel must be put on a back burner as it is a recipe for catastrophe and nothing more. We need trust in the region between Israelis and Muslims, between Shia and Sunni and between Nuslims and Christians and Jews. All else are just window dressing theories that will get us nowhere.
The Muslims must shed the notion of conquest and superiority and honour and being wronged.
The Palestinians from my vantage point are not interested in peace, otherwise they would agree to Baraks or Olmerts proposals or continue negotiating with Netanyahu instead of that bogus settlement construction freeze.
BTW: A large number of El Qaida leaders are well educated and wealthy as were the perpetrators of 911. so I do not buy that poverty =terrorist theory.
Gabe, You better be careful because we're starting to agree on certain matters.
First of all, I never said that Israel of the US are the problem in the Middle East. On the contrary, I think that Israel and the US have been used as diversionary tactics to divert attention away from inadequate leadership and corruption.
I would invest in businesses that create jobs, that protect the environment, and grow the economies, that weaken the hold of extremist thinking. I would defer to the needs of the people, based on recommendations from experts on the ground who know, similar to how the Gates Foundation is structured. So, for example, if people need clean water, I would use Israeli green technology in this regard and couple that with Arab investment capital to create jobs for the man and woman on the street.
The way you weaken the hold of the mullahs is to put something serious on the table, and to give everyone a place at the table, a stake in his future. The ideological extremists will not be able to capture the public's imagination, once people begin to imagine a better life for themselves.
I agree with the need to build trust. The best way to do that is to do business together. Business creates its own ideological imperative. We may start out hating one another's guts. But once we make money together, then we both have a vested interest in keeping the relationship strong. At that point, we are much less likely to go at each other's throat.
I also agree that we don't push a final peace deal until we're both ready. But business can pave the way to peace. In fact, I would say that business can create a neutral pathway to peace.
The Muslims will require a transformation of sorts, as will the Jews. Both must come to embrace a new ideological framework, a framework based on common sense notions. Instead of believing what we want to believe, it's time to believe in what makes sense. Instead of jumping to false belief and rationalizing why we're right, why not use rationality in the first place to arrive at what is worth believing. In a more perfect world, common sense, the collective wisdom born of shared experience, will inspire our thinking and inform our speech, In our fracture world, common sense is the common denominator.
The Palestinians may not have wanted peace in the past, or at least their leaders calculated that a state of war is perferable in consolidating political power. But this is a new day. This is the day when a man is on the street seeking his freedom and a good paying jobs. The Palestinian leadership will have no choice but to listen, or face the wrath of its people.
People always tell me that al Qaeda is educated and wealthy. That is not relevant. The are educated and perhaps wealthy, but they use hate to consolidate political power. If we can capture the heart and mind of the man on the street, then al Qaeda will lose its support, its recruitment, and its funding. Paradise after martyrdom will be a hard sell when the man on the street comes to find a real paradise right here on earth.
Israel has had business relations with Egypt for about 30years now and with Saudi and the Gulf States even longer.
So when do we start seeing a dividend?
From a theoretical point of view , you make sense but from a practical and realistic point of view your theory is but a dream that will not be realized.
The will to be truly free (on an individual basis) and be financially secure must come from the man on the street himself. What we are seeing now is but a mirage driven by ein breira that cannot be translated into jobs, and a better standard of living.
I do hope you succeed and wish you all the luck. But suggest that your vision be driven by a desire and independent of Israel appeasement.
I do want peace, but not for me but rather for my grandchildren and their grandchildren and a peace that is worthy of its name.
